Interview with International Herald Leader

Remarks by Jon M. Huntsman, Jr.
U.S. Ambassador to the PRC
Interview with International Herald Leader
Ambassador’s Residence, Beijing, China
January 18, 2010

 

 

INTERNATIONAL HERALD LEADER (IHL):  Maybe we can start with President Obama’s visit here.  For most Chinese, they are particularly impressed with the picture that the President got off the plane [upon arrival in Shanghai] and walked alone with an umbrella in his hand.  Maybe that’s what particularly impressed them.

Since you have accompanied the President all the way during his visit, what impressed you most?  Is there any picture that lingers in your mind?

Ambassador Huntsman:  I’ve worked for five Presidents, Republicans and Democrats, and I’ve been impressed with all of them to some degree.  President Obama has a very deep sense of humanity.  He has a very natural and genuine ability to connect with people at all levels of society.

In America, they like to say, “What you see is what you get.”  You say it’s the “genuine article.”  I think with President Obama’s trip here to China, many people saw an American President who is very much a genuine leader.  He’s sincere.  He cares about people.  He cares about the U.S.-China relationship.  He was here to learn, he was here to establish deep and meaningful relationships, and he was here to help frame the future of the U.S.-China relationship, which he deems to be the most important relationship in the world.

But it’s always a little surreal when you find yourself riding with the President in his car through the streets of Beijing, because I didn’t expect to be here.  He didn’t expect to be here.  Yet we’re both riding in the car having a conversation about U.S.-China relations.  It impresses you how quickly your circumstances in life can change.

IHL:  And which aspects do you think really could have been better?  Or do you think it was perfect?

Ambassador Huntsman:  I thought his visit was quite good.  In America, we’re always a little critical.  We always try to find things that could have been better.

IHL:  We are journalists, so we tend to be critical.

Ambassador Huntsman:  My recommendation was to stop to get a rou bing, maybe even a grilled bing on the side of the street in Beijing.

IHL:  What’s that?

Ambassador Huntsman:  [Speaking Chinese.]  I thought it would be nice to stop and have him buy and sample a rou bing with some people from Beijing around.  I think that was the only idea that I recommended, probably for good reason, that wasn’t accepted.  But that would have been my only addition to the trip, if I were to design it all over again.

IHL:  As far as the U.S.-China relationship is concerned, what do you think his biggest achievement was in the first year of Obama’s presidency?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Infusing trust into the relationship, which is a very difficult thing to do.  Because trust is based on human interaction.  And human interaction is based on time spent together, and I’ve been very impressed by the President’s willingness to meet with President Hu, which he did several times last year, along with phone calls on top of that.  And I thought he went to great lengths to build a relationship based on trust, because it’s only with a relationship based on trust that you can do work between two countries that is meaningful and durable and substantively important.  President Obama understood that from day one, this relationship needed to work, that it needed to be framed, that it needed to be made positive, and comprehensive, and collaborative.  And the only way you’re going to achieve that is by developing good, strong, positive relationships based on trust.  And I give him high marks for doing that the first year.  And because he did that, we all tried to do that.

Consequently, you have throughout the range of U.S.-China relations -- at all levels -- you have relationships that are being built on trust, with everyone understanding the President wants this to be a positive relationship, wants it to be comprehensive and collaborative.  That of course we’re going to have our disagreements and of course we’re not going to agree on everything.  That’s natural in any good relationship.  But beyond that, we can set priorities based on what both countries agree are in our mutual interest, and we can move forward with achieving those things.

So if the President had not made that a priority, the first year would have gone by and we wouldn’t have so many solid relationships that have been created.

So now we begin 2010. I would argue 2010 is likely to be the most important year in the history of U.S.-China relations --

IHL:  Why is that?

Ambassador Huntsman:  -- in 30 years.  Because economically, the U.S. and China must act.  Because from a security standpoint, the U.S. and China must act.  From a proliferation, a nuclear safety standpoint, Iran and North Korea, the U.S. and China must act.  From an environment and climate change standpoint, the U.S. and China must act.

Before, you didn’t have so many key issues that impacted the entire world that depended upon two countries.  Today, you have every single important global issue that depends virtually on two countries.  Many other countries will participate, of course, but it will be left to two to complete.

So because of that, as we look through 2010, it’s going to be not only an important year, but I would argue the most important year in the history of the U.S.-China relationship.

So I hope that by the end of the year, we’re able to say we made it happen, we made it work.  The world is a better, safer, cleaner place because the U.S. and China brought to fruition their bilateral relationship that Hu Jintao and Barack Obama both knew was possible.

IHL:  And just now, you said there are a number of areas where both countries must act.  What would be the challenge, the biggest challenge, in the year ahead?

Ambassador Huntsman:  The challenge as always is finding common ground.  It’s finding your shared interests.  It ought to be a simple thing to do, and I hope that this coming year we’re able to find common ground.  I think we can.  We have in the past.  But that’s typically the challenge, because your definition of your interests sometimes is different from my definition of interests, and we have to bring our interests together in ways that allow for our definitions to be similar.

As you state your interests, they’re basically the same as their stated interests.  Sometimes, when it comes to climate change, the way you describe it and what is important to China sometimes is different than the way I describe it and what is important for the United States.  So it’s bringing our interests together in ways that are harmonious.

IHL:  And what area do you think is the priority in which both countries should find common ground?

Ambassador Huntsman:  All of those.  I think in all of the key global areas, whether it’s economics and trade, whether it’s regional security and nuclear safety, whether it’s clean energy, the environment and climate change.  All of these are areas in which we can find common ground because they all go back to shared values that exist both in China and in the United States.  We want peaceful communities, we want social stability, we want good educational opportunities for our next generation.  We want jobs and a good economy that will give the next generation long term opportunities.  It’s the same here as it is in the United States.

We have different cultures and traditions, obviously, that brought us to this point, but I think we have a lot of shared interests when we stop to think about it. 

IHL:  China’s Defense Ministry recently warned that it reserved the right to take further action if Washington follows through with the arms deal to Taiwan.  As the Ambassador here, can you understand China’s reaction to the arms sale?

Ambassador Huntsman:  I’ve understood it for 30 years.  We’ve done the same thing for 30 years.  And we’ve been able to get through the relationship over 30 years, going all the way back to the beginning of our forming the bilateral relationship in 1979.  The Taiwan Relations Act was created back in 1979.  And Congress, which plays a very important role in Taiwan arms sales, made it law 30 years ago.  It remains law today.  Over 30 years of this same decision being made by the United States, we’ve been able to build a very solid U.S.-China relationship.

So despite, again, some disagreements, in areas where both sides are not in complete harmony, we still are able to see the relationship grow and develop in historic ways.

What is important is the dialogue that is taking place between Taiwan and China, which is very positive.  And I think represents a sense of reassurance, not only to the region, but to the entire world.  And China is to be congratulated on the progress that has been made here.  I think it’s historic, what we’re seeing play out right now, and I think it will mean a great deal in the years ahead as it relates to peace and stability and economic prosperity in terms of cross-strait relations.

IHL:  But how can the United States and China, I mean they haven’t resolved the issue and prevent the reoccurrence of such disagreements?

Ambassador Huntsman:  With Taiwan arms sales?

IHL:  -- for 30 years, yes.  Arms sales.

Ambassador Huntsman:  My point being, it’s happened for 30 years, yet it hasn’t stood in the way of our bilateral relationship.  There are some areas that are disagreements between the U.S. and China, three or four of them.  We have some, you have some.  We understand those.  And we put them on the side.  The Defense Ministry will say what they have to say.  On trade issues, the Economic Ministry will say what they have to say.  But what is important longer term is that we stay focused on the big issues that we are involved with in our bilateral relationship.  And over time, all issues solve themselves.  There’s always a time and a place for issues to be resolved, and I have every confidence that when the time and the place is right, when the American Congress, the American people, the American executive branch in consultation with China, when they want to take a fresh look at issues, they will do that.

IHL:  And can you predict what is the time for this issue to be resolved?

Ambassador Huntsman:  I can’t predict that.  I’m not smart enough to predict the timing on things like that.

IHL:  Last week, China has successfully tested an inter-missile interception technology.  And according to China’s Foreign Ministry, the test is defensive in nature and it’s not targeted at a certain country, or any other country.  What concerns does the United States have with this test?

Ambassador Huntsman:  As with any test of this kind, what is the nature of the test, how successful was it, what are the intentions going forward, who ultimately is it targeted at?  These are all the kinds of questions that a healthy military-to-military relationship will address.  That’s why I think that our developing military-to-military relationship between the U.S. and China is so very, very important.  Because one area where we have been deficient in our relationship is in the military-to-military area.  Because it is always the first part of the relationship to be canceled if something goes wrong.  Then what happens when it’s canceled?  We don’t have people talking to each other.  And when people don’t talk to each other, they always assume the worst.  That’s just human nature.  You always assume the worst in a situation if you’re not able to communicate about the issues.

So when we don’t have our military leaders talking, when we aren’t able to engage in confidence-building measures, when we don’t talk about maritime rights and freedom of navigation, when we don’t talk about defense budgets and what the priorities are, when we don’t talk about anti-satellite missile launches -- then you assume the worst, when maybe you don’t need to. 

So I’m delighted that the military-to-military relationship is improving over time.  And I would encourage both sides to keep up that momentum, because for the safety of all people involved and for the security of the region, these discussions are very, very important in building confidence.

IHL:  President Obama canceled his visit with the Dali Lama last fall.  Is the President scheduled to make this dialogue this year?  Or what factors will influence the President’s decision?  What’s your advice?

Ambassador Huntsman:  You put me on the spot.  [Laughter].  You’re not supposed to do that.

My advice to the President on the Dali Lama?

IHL:  Yes.

Ambassador Huntsman:  I won’t offer the President my advice on this particular matter because I think he understands it fully well.  But you have to remember that every governor, every mayor, many CEOs, heads of state in many countries around the world, they’ve had a chance to meet the Dali Lama.  While I was governor of my state, I met the Dali Lama.  He came and stayed in my state.  He is a religious and a cultural figure who is respected by many, many people around the world.  And it’s somewhat inconceivable that a head of state or a governor or a mayor would not meet with a religious leader.

So the President will make his own decision.  I believe he will meet with the Dali Lama.  He’ll choose a time that is right and most propitious, but like every President before him, going back 20 or 30 years, as he did as a Senator, he’ll meet Dali Lama.

IHL:  You think he will meet.

Have you ever browsed Google’s Chinese version?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Yes.  You mean Google.cn?

IHL:  Yes.

Ambassador Huntsman:  Yes.

IHL:  If Google asked, what advice would you give to Google on its China strategy?

Ambassador Huntsman:  The good thing is they won’t ask, so I won’t have to worry about what advice I give them.  It’s important that Google is able to work out their issues without the U.S. government intervening with their counterparts in China, and I suspect they’ll work very hard in the weeks to come doing just that.

IHL:  A question about your daughter.  About Gracie Meiy.

Ambassador Huntsman:  What you said about Google, if I had advice.  As in all cases, it would be to stand up for your corporate values, whatever your corporate values are.  It’s important to be consistent, for your shareholders and for people who buy your product.  That’s important.  So they’ll have to make a decision based on that.

IHL:  The picture reminded me of your pretty daughter.  You once said that you expected her to be a special ambassador between these two countries.  I’m wondering, how could she help overcome the obstacles between these two countries?

Ambassador Huntsman:  How can she help overcome the differences?

IHL:  You said you wanted her to be a special ambassador to bridge the gap between the two countries.

Ambassador Huntsman:  I think there are gaps because there isn’t enough in the way of understanding between the two countries.  The Pacific Ocean is very wide.  And that distance makes the misunderstanding more profound.  It’s a long distance between the United States and China.

We’re also just getting beyond a generation that was focused on Europe. My parents, my grandparents, they were focused on Europe.  That’s where their life was.  The trade, the investment, the cultural connections were all in Europe.  For Gracie and her generation, they will all be here in Asia and specifically in China.  Economics and trade and culture -- she will be listening to Chinese songs in America and watching Chinese movies.  I have no doubt.  In my generation, we didn’t see any of that.  But the world will change so much in the next few years that by her promoting deep understanding, which is understanding the traditions that are 5,000 years old in China, and encouraging people here to understand our traditions that are almost 250 years old.  One is based on a Confucian view of the world, and the other is based very much on a Jeffersonian view of the world.  And so the role of the individual in society is different, and so therefore there are many other associated issues that are different, and we confuse them sometimes.

There are always talks of a clash of cultures.  Our system is superior, so on and so forth.  What we need is better understanding about both systems.  It’s through that better understanding that I have no doubt Gracie will provide over her lifetime, she’ll be a great ambassador.  She already is a great ambassador.

The average person from China will be able to look at America and say, “I understand how they are.  I understand their traditions.  I understand their culture.  I understand why they think the way they do.  I can accept that.”  And similarly, people in the United States will be able to look at people in China and say, “I understand why they do that, I understand why that decision is very important in China.  It’s part of their tradition.  It’s part of their upbringing.  It’s part of their history.”  Then you have a convergence of understanding which results in greater peace and greater harmony.  And that’s the most important thing that needs to be done for her generation.

I like to think that we started in the state in which I was governor by promoting Chinese language.  We took German and French back a little bit in the public schools, and we introduced Chinese language.  So now there are many thousands of young kids studying Chinese for the first time.  And because they’re studying Chinese language, they will see the world differently, because language is an opener of the mind.  It allows you to see culture more clearly.  And so little things like that that are happening throughout America I think are going to promote greater understanding.  And many things that are happening here are going to promote greater understanding, too.  And Gracie will be going back and forth.  She’ll always be asked to talk about her experience in China, when she’s in America.  And she’s always asked here, what about America?  So she’s already working as an ambassador, whether she likes it or not.

IHL:  As the Ambassador, what’s your work day like?

Ambassador Huntsman:  My work day always begins with newspapers and news.

IHL:  What are your must read newspapers?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Must read newspapers would include -- I read the China Daily.

IHL:  Really?

Ambassador Huntsman:  I look at Xinhua.

IHL:  Chinese version?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Chinese version, yes.  I can’t read all of it but I can pick out the headlines so I can see what’s important.  Also the Youth Daily.

IHL:  Beijing Youth Daily.

Ambassador Huntsman:  Yeah.  And Financial Times and the International Herald Tribune.  And I read the Global Times too, sometimes.

IHL:  Chinese version?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Global Times, translated.

IHL:  That’s a surprise.

Ambassador Huntsman:  I get all of it I can get my hands on.

IHL:  What are must visit web sites?

Ambassador Huntsman:  I don’t have time for a lot of web sites.  But I do go to Xinhua and Sina and People’s Daily web site, and I go to American news web sites -- CNN and network news.  I even venture off to things like the Drudge Report in the United States.

IHL:  What’s that?

Ambassador Huntsman:  That’s a more sensational listing of headlines. They give you a quick snapshot of headlines around the world, American style.  It’s very much an American world there.

IHL:  It’s a way to get relaxed.

Ambassador Huntsman:  It’s a way to find what a lot of people in America who are very politically oriented are thinking.  So I can take a look at that, too.  Then sometimes I look at my hometown web sites in Utah.  And sometimes motorcycle racing web site.

IHL:  What is that?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Because I used to race motorcycles.  I love the sport of motorcycle racing.

IHL:  Oh.  I know you say table tennis.

Ambassador Huntsman:  I don’t have a good table tennis web site.  [Laughter].  But I play at night with my son.

IHL:  Oh, you play table tennis?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Oh, yes.

IHL:  How often?

Ambassador Huntsman:  I try to play every day.  I had my shoulder operated on, so I can’t use my arm right now, but when my arm is good, I play every day.  Every night.  I come home late from work and I have some Chinese food, usually some Sichuan cai, and then I play my son.

IHL:  You begin your work day with newspapers?  What’s next?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Oh, I could give you my schedule—

Voice: I don’t think we have time.  [Laughter].

Ambassador Huntsman:  Every half hour something --

IHL:  Meetings?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Meetings, business people coming in, we have university presidents coming in.  I go out, like I did this morning to see a Minister to talk about climate change here.  I do phone calls to the United States to talk to important decision makers there.  I’ll have groups of students who will come in.  Many, many different things.  It’s a very interesting job because every day, there’s something different to do.

IHL:  How often do you report to the President?

Ambassador Huntsman:  We report to Washington, the White House, every day. Every evening we send something back.

IHL:  Is there any way for you to talk to the President face to face or maybe --

Ambassador Huntsman:  Of course.

IHL:  Every day?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Oh no, not every day.  Just selected days.

IHL:  I mean that kind of contact, how often?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Selectively.  When there are important events coming up, or he’s coming into contact with a Chinese leader or --

IHL:  Not regularly?

Ambassador Huntsman:  Well, he can get any of the reporting that we do regularly through his senior people, who we keep in contact with.

IHL:  Thank you.

Ambassador Huntsman:  Thank you very much.

 

 

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